Penalty card - can director apply discretion?
Declarer (E) wins the trick with AC in dummy.
Declarer points toward dummy and says "4". There is 4C in dummy.
N believes declarer is pointing to 4H and plays a heart. When dummy pulls the 4C N realises and calls the director.
Clearly the 4C has been played, but does director have the option to declare the heart not to be a penalty card, per WB 8.50.4? N's belief was genuine.
Comments
The regulation you quote does allow it, but I wouldn't because the problem is of the player's own making. The player should wait until the card has been put in the played position, but in any case L46B3a tells us that the card called for is the C4 (unless declarer's different intention was incontrovertible).
Having looked more closely at WB 8.50.4, which states "(discretion) can be applied whenever the other side has contributed to the situation that has led to the card becoming a penalty card."
I don't think this is the case here - EW do not seem to have contributed.
Not that it makes any difference, since (as Gordon said) it shouldn't be allowed anyway.
It might be argued that East has contributed to it by using an incomplete designation and by (apparently) pointing at the wrong card. But I still wouldn't use my discretion in this case.
Thank you Gordon.
Declarer called for the 9 and I played my 10 only to find that he called for the Knave, not the 9! Cost me a trick.
I had never heared the term Knave for a Jack before and only a couple of times since.
Certainly seems silly to not allow a substitution under those circumstances. At county and congress levels, no probs. But at club/social levels, I think it is clear that different standards should apply.
"Ace" and "8" are close enough for that to be a common issue.
A conscientious declarer will never say 'ace' - 'top' will always do.
It has been suggested that declarer should say 'eight spot' when it is necessary to specificly designate.
We should not mind that these recommendations may contravene of Law 46A. Members of the L&E have said that following Law 46A is a source of extraneous information - if North at the next tables is heard to say 'ace of spades', this passes more information than 'top' or 'top trump'.
I have one player at my club who always calls for the "knave". Also I often am not sure if declarer is calling for the A or 8 so I ask - although, as dummy, am I breaking a rule here?
There is a lady who plays with her daughter. She just points to the suit and her daughter picks the card. No one has called the TD so what can I do about it? One game, playing against me, the daughter, as dummy, asked to see my played card. I refused and said "dummy cannot ask and should not speak anyway". She is still friendly with me.
Call the TD when she's playing against you?
Dummy cannot ask: True
Dummy should not speak anyway: Not true - there are occasions when dummy is allowed to speak.
I always think in situations like these it is better to call the director. The benefits are multiple:
I don't think so. As dummy your obligation is to play the card declarer names. If you are unsure what they have requested, you must ask! I think it is always better to say "can you repeat that please" rather than, say, "was that the Ace"? If (as with most dummies) you have been following the play you may unconsciously be making a suggestion.
This sometimes happens with an opening lead and a singleton. I let declarer think before nominating the card.
Alan