Did declarer manage to take full advantage of it? Would be a nice Christmas party type hand to require the opening leader to do this and see which declarer ended up with the best outcome!
@gordonrainsford said:
Did declarer manage to take full advantage of it? Would be a nice Christmas party type hand to require the opening leader to do this and see which declarer ended up with the best outcome!
Apparently not - flat hand. Offender only had 1 point...
Surely more so, since you know which defender is going to take the trick and then you can decide which suit they return, possibly letting you into dummy in a suit where you wouldn't normally even get a trick.
@Tag said:
Surely more so, since you know which defender is going to take the trick and then you can decide which suit they return, possibly letting you into dummy in a suit where you wouldn't normally even get a trick.
If you're suggesting putting lead penalties on offender's partner, well yes you can do that, but then all the cards of the suit specified will go back into offenders hand and you lose the right to play them.
You always get the knowledge of exactly where all the cards are, but so does the other defender (and it's AI), so it potentially benefits the defence as much as it does declarer. The only guaranteed advantage is the ability to play defender's cards.
Yes, everyone is playing double-dummy but, even assuming that the weak, exposed hand never takes a trick, being able to specify which suit is returned or prohibited multiple times gives a significant advantage over the rest of the field.
If declarer has the right to apply a lead restriction to a player who is on lead but that player makes a lead before declarer has had any chance to think or speak, what should the TD do when called? Can declarer still apply the lead restriction? Does the played card become a penalty card?
If declarer has the right to apply a lead restriction to a player who is on lead but that player makes a lead before declarer has had any chance to think or speak, what should the TD do when called? Can declarer still apply the lead restriction? Does the played card become a penalty card?
@Tag said:
Yes, everyone is playing double-dummy but, even assuming that the weak, exposed hand never takes a trick, being able to specify which suit is returned or prohibited multiple times gives a significant advantage over the rest of the field.
I don't think it works quite like that.
You can demand a player with 13 penalty cards plays a specific one, but if you request his partner to lead (or refrain from leading) a specific suit then the cards that are exposed in that suit no longer remain penalty cards and are picked up (Law 50E applies). So you can only ask (or forbid) each suit once.
At least you didn’t have twenty six penalty cards to deal with as I once did.
Defender laid her hand down as Dummy and a split second later Defenders Partner knocked over the Card Stand he was using revealing all thirteen of his cards.
At a GP event (Scarborough Summer) I was once on lead against a man (LHO) and a lady (RHO). She was so nervous that she did start to put down her hand as I led. We only managed to see the first two suits and, of course, it became a memory test for partner and me when she picked them back up.
Comments
Did declarer manage to take full advantage of it? Would be a nice Christmas party type hand to require the opening leader to do this and see which declarer ended up with the best outcome!
Apparently not - flat hand. Offender only had 1 point...
Having those penalty cards still gives opportunities for end plays, such as forcing the other hand to lead into a tenace.
But the opportunities will be much less so where a hand has few points - especially after the opening lead.
And sometimes hands are just flat.
Surely more so, since you know which defender is going to take the trick and then you can decide which suit they return, possibly letting you into dummy in a suit where you wouldn't normally even get a trick.
If you're suggesting putting lead penalties on offender's partner, well yes you can do that, but then all the cards of the suit specified will go back into offenders hand and you lose the right to play them.
You always get the knowledge of exactly where all the cards are, but so does the other defender (and it's AI), so it potentially benefits the defence as much as it does declarer. The only guaranteed advantage is the ability to play defender's cards.
Yes, everyone is playing double-dummy but, even assuming that the weak, exposed hand never takes a trick, being able to specify which suit is returned or prohibited multiple times gives a significant advantage over the rest of the field.
Which brings me to another question...
If declarer has the right to apply a lead restriction to a player who is on lead but that player makes a lead before declarer has had any chance to think or speak, what should the TD do when called? Can declarer still apply the lead restriction? Does the played card become a penalty card?
Yes and yes - L50D2.
Thank you, Gordon.
I don't think it works quite like that.
You can demand a player with 13 penalty cards plays a specific one, but if you request his partner to lead (or refrain from leading) a specific suit then the cards that are exposed in that suit no longer remain penalty cards and are picked up (Law 50E applies). So you can only ask (or forbid) each suit once.
Yes, indeed, I never considered otherwise and you've not contradicted anything I wrote.
I think his point was that you can't prohibit or demand a suit multiple times.
You can if it's not the same suit each time. :) Is my English really this unclear?
Ah, now I see the confusion... the "multiple times" referred not to the suit but to the prohibiting and demanding.
Defender laid her hand down as Dummy and a split second later Defenders Partner knocked over the Card Stand he was using revealing all thirteen of his cards.
At a GP event (Scarborough Summer) I was once on lead against a man (LHO) and a lady (RHO). She was so nervous that she did start to put down her hand as I led. We only managed to see the first two suits and, of course, it became a memory test for partner and me when she picked them back up.