NT response to 5 card Stayman - is it alertable?
Say my partner opens 2NT (19-20 balanced) and I bid 3C (5 card Stayman - alerted).
If my partner responds 3NT (denying even a 4 card major), should I alert it?
My belief is no, since it does contain some other specific information, it is essentially a natural bid and the information is to an extent incidental.
I liken it to (for example) having an agreed point range on a jump overcall, or a weak 2 opener denying 4 cards in the the major, or not alerting the completion of a transfer when partner has the option of super acceptance.
Also, opponents have already been alerted that something is going on, and they can always ask.
My favourite barrack room lawyer insists otherwise - i.e. that it is alertable.
Comments?
Comments
Alert. It is artificial. The "natural" meaning of 3NT is "I want to play 3NT, even though partner asked me to describe my hand".
What's the harm in alerting?
Indeed. As David Burn is fond of saying, "tell them what you play".
I think there is harm in alerting too much. Apart from potentially delaying the game, every alert is an onus on the opposition. Ask and give UI to your partner, or don't and risk the consequences.
Having said this, i do alert it sometimes, depending on the experience of my ops. 3C is alerted so experienced players will know that something 'different' is going on.
I too see an issue with alerting too much
I think it should be alerted since the bid contains some very specific information which the defenders are entitled to be aware of and which could help them on defence. Equally, it could be suggested that it's common Bridge knowledge and, of course, they can ask.
Some might take exception to the full explanation that Martin describes, since it reminds partner what your responses will mean.
Next, playing natural systems, we'll be asked to alert the 1NT bid in the sequence 1m - 1N on grounds that it also denies 4 and 5 card majors.
Oh I agree that there can be harm in alerting too much, but in this instance I don't see it.
I agree that the 3NT rebid is alertable, although I would be hard-pressed to imagine adjusting for damage arising from a non-alert.
I didn't read Martin's post as saying that if asked about 3 !c , he would say what the opener's rebids were. I agree that this is not appropriate. Doubtless if Jeremy's favourite barrack-room lawyer was told "it asks me to clarify my holdings in the majors", he would give a withering look and respond "some sort of Stayman, then?"
I am quite happy whether 3N is alerted or not, but before the opening lead is made I would want to make sure the opposition knew what they should know, so unless I thought them too smart to need to be told, I would - as dummy or declarer - be duty bound to point out the implications of 3N to anyone who might not pick them up.
The spirit of the game is more important than the letter of the law (regulation).
I agree that a. it is alertable and b. it is right to explain what it is if asked or at the end of the auction (not a legal responsibility if you aren't asked). It isn't automatic to play 3NT here as meaning no 5 or 4 card major. Some would bid 3D with 4 card major(s) or 3 spades leaving 3NT to be 2-2 or 2-3 in the majors.
Some play 3NT as 5 H.
However "automatic" a meaning of a bid is, if it is part of an artificial structure, the meaning is unlikely to be "expected".
About 60% of the time this comes up against me, opponents seem to forget. I love Muppet Stayman :)
There was a disagreement in a national event a few years ago. Something to do with who explained which bids in a sequence.
The upshot was that, after the TD had been called to umpire the explanations, calm threatened to return until one player described 3C as muppet stayman and the other side said "How singularly appropriate" Cue renewed outbreak of hostilities. In my top 10 of excellent comments at the table.
We play 3nt = 3sp-2/3h as 3h = a) 3h-2sp b) 5h 3d= 4M(s) 3sp = 5sp I am not sure if they are all alertable
Well your side know something your opponents don't so why would you not alert?
3!s showing spades doesn't seem obviously alertable to me. The other responses are much more specific, and I'd expect them to be alerted.
Yes, the 3 !d , 3 !h and 3NT rebids are clearly all alertable in EBU-land.
Mr Burn would approve of this sentiment.