@JeremyChild said:
Oh I wasn't suggesting they applied to me - just curious.
Jeremy
I was just meaning that clubs and counties are free to make their own agreements with TDs, and it may well be that this structure is not well suited to the events they run.
Actually, having looked at them they seem far from generous. Given the amount of time a director has to put in the hourly rate isn't much more than the national living wage. For people who are well trained and highly experienced this seems out of Kilter.
Did you expect otherwise, Jeremy? Somebody the other day was telling me that our TDs were paid well, and finished off by saying "and they get their hotels and travel paid", as though it were a benefit rather than a necessary expense!
Did you expect otherwise, Jeremy? Somebody the other day was telling me that our TDs were paid well, and finished off by saying "and they get their hotels and travel paid", as though it were a benefit rather than a necessary expense!
At the risk of getting "political" and possibly even upsetting some people, yes I did, Gordon. Whilst there has to be a balance, an organisation should respect the skill and experience of its resources by properly remunerating them. If the organisation does not, neither will the members (hence the comment you reported above, of which I have heard various versions).
Also, to not do so is to risk ending up reliant on the goodwill of a few people, and possibly becoming beholden to them.
I accept that many small organisations run on the time and goodwill of volunteers, but the EBU is an organisation with a turnover of nearly £1.5 million. If you were to (to pick a number out of a hat) double the rates, what effect would that have on the "bottom line"?
Let me be clear: I am NOT saying that the EBU does not respect its directors, merely that it might not be demonstrating that respect as well as it could.
It's interesting to read these comments.
Presumably as in most club environments our Directors are unpaid.
It's only in the last few years that we have been exempt from table fees.
Any club runs on the goodwill of its members. We're recently added free games for scorers as well as directors and people keep asking for free games for the partner of the director, on the premiss that partnering the director affects their scores. So far, this suggestion has been rejected.
An EBU or County event, though, would be another matter. I would expect expenses and reasonable remuneration but I would not be expecting a comfortable wage from it.
While I'm here, I'd also like to express thanks to those Club, County and National directors who enable events to happen. We take for granted the TD of a normal club night but many also step up for those extra weekend events.
Did you expect otherwise, Jeremy? Somebody the other day was telling me that our TDs were paid well, and finished off by saying "and they get their hotels and travel paid", as though it were a benefit rather than a necessary expense!
At the risk of getting "political" and possibly even upsetting some people, yes I did, Gordon. Whilst there has to be a balance, an organisation should respect the skill and experience of its resources by properly remunerating them. If the organisation does not, neither will the members (hence the comment you reported above, of which I have heard various versions).
Also, to not do so is to risk ending up reliant on the goodwill of a few people, and possibly becoming beholden to them.
I accept that many small organisations run on the time and goodwill of volunteers, but the EBU is an organisation with a turnover of nearly £1.5 million. If you were to (to pick a number out of a hat) double the rates, what effect would that have on the "bottom line"?
Let me be clear: I am NOT saying that the EBU does not respect its directors, merely that it might not be demonstrating that respect as well as it could.
I hope we do demonstrate out respect for directors in various ways other than fees, but my real point was that I think a significant proportion of our membership thinks our TDs are over-paid, which I am always keen to put right.
I think part of the source of this difference of view is the one alluded to by Alan above, which arises when some people involved in running events are volunteers and others are paid staff. This occurs particularly in county events where the organising committees are volunteers who pay TDs to work on the day of the event.
One thing that I think is worth them remembering is that the volunteer organisers generally do one event a year, and I doubt they would be willing to volunteer unpaid to give up a significant number of their weekends.
Comments
A Google search came up with this...
https://www.ebu.co.uk/documents/laws-and-ethics/td-forms/td-claim-form.pdf
Or a more up-to-date version...
https://www.ebu.co.uk/documents/laws-and-ethics/td-forms/td-claim-rates-2018.pdf
Note that these are for EBU panel TDs, and while they may be a useful guide for others, there's no requirement to follow them.
Oh I wasn't suggesting they applied to me - just curious.
Jeremy
I was just meaning that clubs and counties are free to make their own agreements with TDs, and it may well be that this structure is not well suited to the events they run.
Actually, having looked at them they seem far from generous. Given the amount of time a director has to put in the hourly rate isn't much more than the national living wage. For people who are well trained and highly experienced this seems out of Kilter.
And here I was applying to become a member of the panel because of the huge fees I expected to earn :'(
l> @gordonrainsford said:
At the risk of getting "political" and possibly even upsetting some people, yes I did, Gordon. Whilst there has to be a balance, an organisation should respect the skill and experience of its resources by properly remunerating them. If the organisation does not, neither will the members (hence the comment you reported above, of which I have heard various versions).
Also, to not do so is to risk ending up reliant on the goodwill of a few people, and possibly becoming beholden to them.
I accept that many small organisations run on the time and goodwill of volunteers, but the EBU is an organisation with a turnover of nearly £1.5 million. If you were to (to pick a number out of a hat) double the rates, what effect would that have on the "bottom line"?
Let me be clear: I am NOT saying that the EBU does not respect its directors, merely that it might not be demonstrating that respect as well as it could.
It's interesting to read these comments.
Presumably as in most club environments our Directors are unpaid.
It's only in the last few years that we have been exempt from table fees.
Alan
Any club runs on the goodwill of its members. We're recently added free games for scorers as well as directors and people keep asking for free games for the partner of the director, on the premiss that partnering the director affects their scores. So far, this suggestion has been rejected.
An EBU or County event, though, would be another matter. I would expect expenses and reasonable remuneration but I would not be expecting a comfortable wage from it.
While I'm here, I'd also like to express thanks to those Club, County and National directors who enable events to happen. We take for granted the TD of a normal club night but many also step up for those extra weekend events.
I hope we do demonstrate out respect for directors in various ways other than fees, but my real point was that I think a significant proportion of our membership thinks our TDs are over-paid, which I am always keen to put right.
I think part of the source of this difference of view is the one alluded to by Alan above, which arises when some people involved in running events are volunteers and others are paid staff. This occurs particularly in county events where the organising committees are volunteers who pay TDs to work on the day of the event.
One thing that I think is worth them remembering is that the volunteer organisers generally do one event a year, and I doubt they would be willing to volunteer unpaid to give up a significant number of their weekends.