Long Term Scoring Issue

dgemerson

I play at a club that has 7 sessions a week - I only actually play at one of them myself and I sometimes direct that session.

After the results from the session I directed yesterday went on to BridgeWebs, I discovered that the results have been calculated using Simple Matchpoints and not the Neuberg formula for fairer results in incomplete movements. I assume that the box to do this in EBUScore must be checked for some reason - not something I've ever done but if someone did in a session before the change is retained for the next session and very easy to miss as it's on a screen you don't necessarily look at. Normally there's nothing to adjust. I haven't gone to the club to check this is the case on the club computer yet.

Anyway, having done some digging on the club website there are a total of 10 sessions affected with the same problem going back to mid-December. Obviously we are way past the standard correction period for scoring errors for most of these.

Do other directors think we should go back and adjust the scores for these sessions with the Neuberg formula? The changes shouldn't make vast differences to the scores, though obviously it will change some scores and in general I don't see much reason not to make all our results as fair as possible, other than the correction period issue.

thebeercard

My plan, when this comes up, is to ask the club committee for its view since they are the Tournament Organisers.

I'm fairly sure, in our situation, that they will want to adjust since almost every session contributes to a season-long club competition and trophy, so they will want the corrected results.

I might also suggest that correcting results makes it more difficult to accuse the committee of bias than if they decided to leave them unchanged. But perhaps EBU clubs do not have such a feudal community!

gordonrainsford

This is the sort of eventuality for which we have special late scoring correction periods in the EBU but it sounds as though you may be too late even for that and so the results will have to stand. Far more likely to be accused of bias if you change them contrary to the regulations.

thebeercard

@gordonrainsford said:
This is the sort of eventuality for which we have special late scoring correction periods in the EBU but it sounds as though you may be too late even for that and so the results will have to stand. Far more likely to be accused of bias if you change them contrary to the regulations.

Doesn't Law 79C2 permit corrections until the end of time, subject to the Tournament Organiser's permission and Director's approval?

[I am not a director, something that will become increasingly obvious the more I post]

16248

I have no idea of Neuburg. Can someone explain please?

Paul_Gibbons

There is an explanation on the EBU web site https://www.ebu.co.uk/documents/laws-and-ethics/articles/neuberg-formula.pdf

JeffreyS

Neuberg takes account of boards played a different number of times using a bayesian formula where you may end up with fractional matchpoints. Simple is just 2/1/0 so you ar not allowing for boards with less/more comparisons. Neuberg is a world standard but needs a program to calculate. Simple was always used when scoring by hand and some clubs do prefer that (which is why it retains the default) as it is clearer to the players checking their matchpoints.Neuberg is fully explained at
https://www.ebu.co.uk/documents/laws-and-ethics/articles/neuberg-formula.pdf

On the actual question, agree with Gordon and in practical terms, the difference with the two methods is unlikely to amount to very much.

16248

It seems reasonable to assume that some adjustments are necessary when not all boards are played the same number of times.
I was wondering if I should be doing anything special when I regularly stop 9 round movements after 7 rounds. I can see that the same situation can arise with half tables.
I have looked in my version of EBUScore and there is a box to tick to remove Neuburg and revert to simple matchpoints.

I will assume now that I am doing the right thing by NOT ticking this box.

Thanks
Alan

(I will save the detailed mathematical study of the concept for a rainy day.)

Robin_BarkerTD

There is no time limit in Law 79C2.

Subject to approval by the Tournament Organizer, a scoring error may be corrected after expiry of the Correction Period if the Director is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the record is wrong.

If the club (as Tournament Organizer) has not explicitly adopted the time limits in the White Book, and they are not bound by their own regulations, they can approve rescoring of the events. They will need to talk to someone at the EBU if they want to replace results which have already been processed for master points and UMS.