Misboarding - but who did it?

JeremyChild

Another one from yesterday's session.

On one board, the hands were rotated so West hands were put into North socket etc.

The prime suspects are of course the last ones to play it in original form, but...

The next table was one where the sitting pair swap between being NS and EW, so it could well have been there (and knowing the players more likely to be).

Do I just warn remind them all but issue no penalty?

Supplementary question: Is there a prescribed way for such tables to rotate their orientation? Players prefer to rotate the board because it's less hassle. As director I prefer them to change seats, partly because they make less mistakes that way, and partly because it's easier for me to see if they've switched.

gordonrainsford

@JeremyChild said:
The prime suspects are of course the last ones to play it in original form, but...

The next table was one where the sitting pair swap between being NS and EW, so it could well have been there (and knowing the players more likely to be).

I'm not sure I understand which tables you are describing here.

Robin_BarkerTD

EBU instructions for players changing compass direction are
Arrow-switched "scrambled" movements: East plays North, North plays West and so on in rotation
All other movements "howell": East and North swap, South and West swap.

These are what Bridgewebs and Pianola assume, so players should be encouraged to follow them so that their statistics as declarer, defender on lead, etc. are accurate.

gordonrainsford

@** [Name & original comment removed at contributor's request]** said:

@gordonrainsford said:

@JeremyChild said:
The prime suspects are of course the last ones to play it in original form, but...

The next table was one where the sitting pair swap between being NS and EW, so it could well have been there (and knowing the players more likely to be).

I'm not sure I understand which tables you are describing here.

I'd hazard a guess at one of the 3/4 howell movements, where some of the stationaries are switched back and forth between NS and EW to improve the movement balance. Some pairs occupying such seats like to arrow-switch the boards; others switch seats (and some manage to forget entirely to do either for one or more rounds).

Yes, but that would still be the last table to play it in its correct form.

Robin_BarkerTD

I would just remind/warn until the end of time. Warn tables who rotate the board on the table during play when you see it.

Use lead validation in Bridgemates so that many fouled boards are picked up the first time they are played.

JeremyChild

@** [Name & original comment removed at contributor's request]** said:

@gordonrainsford said:

@JeremyChild said:
The prime suspects are of course the last ones to play it in original form, but...

The next table was one where the sitting pair swap between being NS and EW, so it could well have been there (and knowing the players more likely to be).

I'm not sure I understand which tables you are describing here.

I'd hazard a guess at one of the 3/4 howell movements, where some of the stationaries are switched back and forth between NS and EW to improve the movement balance. Some pairs occupying such seats like to arrow-switch the boards; others switch seats (and some manage to forget entirely to do either for one or more rounds).

That is exactly what I meant. Thanks, ** [Name & original comment removed at contributor's request]**.

JeremyChild

@gordonrainsford said:

@SteveFoster said:

@gordonrainsford said:

@JeremyChild said:
The prime suspects are of course the last ones to play it in original form, but...

The next table was one where the sitting pair swap between being NS and EW, so it could well have been there (and knowing the players more likely to be).

I'm not sure I understand which tables you are describing here.

I'd hazard a guess at one of the 3/4 howell movements, where some of the stationaries are switched back and forth between NS and EW to improve the movement balance. Some pairs occupying such seats like to arrow-switch the boards; others switch seats (and some manage to forget entirely to do either for one or more rounds).

Yes, but that would still be the last table to play it in its correct form.

There are, I think, two similar possibilities for the first table to play in the amended form to be the guilty table.
1. They take the cards out, realise they have the board incorrectly orientated, and then rotate the empty board (while keeping their hands).
2. They take the cards out, don't realise they have the board incorrectly orientated, but play it as it is and then (unknowingly) rotate the empty board, and scoring it in their "new" positions.

To us that seems impossible, but it's amazing how often people don't understand the consequences of rotating a board. I have on several occasions seen people take the cards out with the board rotated by 180, realise they've done it, and just rotate the board back (again keeping their cards).

JeremyChild

@Robin_BarkerTD said:
Use lead validation in Bridgemates so that many fouled boards are picked up the first time they are played.

We're working on it - it's something else we have to train scorers on.

gordonrainsford

@JeremyChild said:

@gordonrainsford said:

@SteveFoster said:

@gordonrainsford said:

@JeremyChild said:
The prime suspects are of course the last ones to play it in original form, but...

The next table was one where the sitting pair swap between being NS and EW, so it could well have been there (and knowing the players more likely to be).

I'm not sure I understand which tables you are describing here.

I'd hazard a guess at one of the 3/4 howell movements, where some of the stationaries are switched back and forth between NS and EW to improve the movement balance. Some pairs occupying such seats like to arrow-switch the boards; others switch seats (and some manage to forget entirely to do either for one or more rounds).

Yes, but that would still be the last table to play it in its correct form.

There are, I think, two similar possibilities for the first table to play in the amended form to be the guilty table.
1. They take the cards out, realise they have the board incorrectly orientated, and then rotate the empty board (while keeping their hands).
2. They take the cards out, don't realise they have the board incorrectly orientated, but play it as it is and then (unknowingly) rotate the empty board, and scoring it in their "new" positions.

To us that seems impossible, but it's amazing how often people don't understand the consequences of rotating a board. I have on several occasions seen people take the cards out with the board rotated by 180, realise they've done it, and just rotate the board back (again keeping their cards).

But in either case, it would be the last table who played it who mis-boarded it, wouldn't it?

JeremyChild

@gordonrainsford said:

@JeremyChild said:

@gordonrainsford said:

@SteveFoster said:

@gordonrainsford said:

@JeremyChild said:
The prime suspects are of course the last ones to play it in original form, but...

The next table was one where the sitting pair swap between being NS and EW, so it could well have been there (and knowing the players more likely to be).

I'm not sure I understand which tables you are describing here.

I'd hazard a guess at one of the 3/4 howell movements, where some of the stationaries are switched back and forth between NS and EW to improve the movement balance. Some pairs occupying such seats like to arrow-switch the boards; others switch seats (and some manage to forget entirely to do either for one or more rounds).

Yes, but that would still be the last table to play it in its correct form.

There are, I think, two similar possibilities for the first table to play in the amended form to be the guilty table.
1. They take the cards out, realise they have the board incorrectly orientated, and then rotate the empty board (while keeping their hands).
2. They take the cards out, don't realise they have the board incorrectly orientated, but play it as it is and then (unknowingly) rotate the empty board, and scoring it in their "new" positions.

To us that seems impossible, but it's amazing how often people don't understand the consequences of rotating a board. I have on several occasions seen people take the cards out with the board rotated by 180, realise they've done it, and just rotate the board back (again keeping their cards).

But in either case, it would be the last table who played it who mis-boarded it, wouldn't it?

No.

Let me clarify:
1. The board, correct when it arrives at the table, is wrongly placed in the NS direction because they have forgotten that they (sitters) should be EW. After looking at the cards, they realise this, and rotate the board by 90deg so the N slot is now in front of E. They play and score it this way and put the cards back in the slots in front of them. They have both misboarded and played it in the misboarded form.

2. works similarly.