Opening pass out rotation when partner's turn to call - 3nt opening bid

dcalcutt

A scenario occured in our recent club session. S Passed, when N was dealer - and the director was called and explained the usual laws, the Pass was not accepted and cancelled and N with 24 points then chose to bid 3NT (knowing S was silenced for the first round). My question is, can ANY bid be chosen by N, irrespective of whether that bid might have been alertable in other circumstances when S was allowed to bid? - NS play gambling 3NT opening.

JeremyChild

Hmm tricky.

Well, yes N can choose any call (30B1a: Offender’s partner may make any legal call at his proper turn).

S is not necessarily silenced for the first round (s/he can make a comparable call: 30B1Bi).

So if S can (and does) make a compartable call, then 3NT is gambling and must be alerted
If S cannot, then 3NT is essentially natural and to play.
And of course, N does not know which is the case.

Director!

Something similar came up recently in https://forums.ebu.co.uk/discussion/comment/11532

Martin

An opening pass would show less than say a flat 10 or 11 (depending on systems). A pass over a natural 3NT (showing a good 24-26) would be less than a flat 8 count. This looks like a comparable call to me, so that N is not barred from making a call should there be a 4 diamond overcall or whatever.

However, this pair does not play a natural 3NT open, they play the gambling 3NT - long solid minor. Are there many hands that would, as dealer, pass, but would also pass the gambling 3NT? My guess is not unless they hold something like: Axx, Axx, QJxx, xxx.

So, if 3NT is systemically a gambling 3NT and they do not have stops in the 3 other suits, then 4C would be the comparable call (for partner to pass or correct). If S chooses to pass instead, believing that partner is taking a stab at a final contract, then that raises the question of is the infraction and the consequences authorised information to the offender and their partner? Are they allowed to have 2 systems - one for standard no offences took place auctions and another for after an offence has taken place?

In the earlier thread, it was pointed out: "White Book 1.6.4.1 (d) "Under Law 40B2 (a) (iv), _a pair is allowed to vary, by prior agreement, its understandings during the auction and play consequent on an irregularity committed by the opponents."
_
However while 40B2(a)(iv) allows a Regulating Authority to make such a regulation in respect of an irregularity committed by the opponents the Laws do not permit this for the offending side."

So, North, by varying their system and south passing (demonstrating an implicit, if not explicit, agreement), they have varied their system after their side made the offending irregularity - which is in itself an offence.

Robin_BarkerTD

LAW 30 - PASS OUT OF ROTATION
B. Partner’s or LHO’s Turn to Call
1. When the offender has passed at his partner’s turn to call, or at his LHO’s turn to call if the offender has not previously called, then:
(a) Offender’s partner may make any legal call at his proper turn, but Law 16C2 applies.

Partner of the offender is not free to bid 3NT, they must make their systemic call - to do otherwise would be using UI from the withdrawn Pass. Offender is not silenced and may not have a comparable call, so offender may well bid 3NT - which will silence partner.

JeremyChild

Oops - missed that one.