Stop card out of turn before dealer calls
Offender didn't then touch another card in bidding box.
Rulings please if offender is
a) 2nd in hand.
b) 3rd or 4th in hand.
I assume a) is easy if dealer passes but if dealer opens would a preemptive bid be acceptable or just some of them. E.g. a weak jump overcall of 2H or 2S lmay be a weak 2 so defining a range that is otherwise undefined.
Rulings please if offender is
a) 2nd in hand.
b) 3rd or 4th in hand.
I assume a) is easy if dealer passes but if dealer opens would a preemptive bid be acceptable or just some of them. E.g. a weak jump overcall of 2H or 2S lmay be a weak 2 so defining a range that is otherwise undefined.
Comments
As I recall, the stop card isn't a bid so the Laws on a bid out of turn don't come into play. But it can generate Unauthorised information, so Law 16 might be relevant. The offender may make whatever bid they like, but their partner should avoid logical alternatives that might be suggested by the knowledge the offender intended to open the bidding at the two level or higher.
If the player does make some kind of jump bid at their turn this is likely to reduce the relevance of the UI, for example if they make a weak jump overcall the only additional information is that the hand probably also qualifies for a weak two opener.
Blue Book 3ZB4 refers as per James.
Barrie Partridge - CTD for Bridge Club Live
Another reason to do away with the Stop card entirely. There are no stop cards on BBO as well.
I've probably said this before. But, as someone who plays three or four times a week, generally as a Director, I see the Stop card used correctly about once a year.
Normally it's picked up immediately and there is no discernible wait for the next bid.
(Yes, I am including my own playing habits.)
Alan
> Another reason to do away with the Stop card entirely. There are no stop cards on BBO as well.
I’m not sure in what way this is a reason to do away with the Stop card. Both Funbridge and RealBridge use stop cards.
The Stop Card helped here. If there hadn't been a stop card, the offender would have used a bidding card instead, creating larger amounts of unauthorised information.
Only if the bid was rejected - and was unable to be replaced by a comparable call - and only to his partner: opponents would appreciate the extra (authorised) information.
> Only if the bid was rejected - and was unable to be replaced by a comparable call - and only to his partner: opponents would appreciate the extra (authorised) information.
I think the minimisation of UI is generally considered to be a good thing.
I fully realize I am in the minority on this issue. Having a stop card, in my opinion, in the bidding box is unnecessary.
(1) If the opponents or your partner are not observant, inattentive or whatever then this is their problem plain and simple. Only the opposition is entitled to any explanation for a jump bid when asked.
(2) Using the stop card mannerism of use, presentation or placement has been proven to tell your partner certain aspects of the jump bid. It could be associated with length, point count or a myriad of undisclosed partnership agreements. Simply take the temptation away. Unless you have been on the receiving side of this unauthorized use will you understand. Bridge has no place for cheating.
(3) Within the last month, a stop card was placed in an intimidating manner before me; nice try that did not work. Some people attempt to use anything to enhance their chances to win or receive an advantage.
Perhaps now you can see my point and reason for my opinion. (... stepping off my soap box now ...)
Am4Fun, in reply to your three points:
(1) Sorry, I don't understand.
(2) There are lots of ways that partnerships could use for illegal communication, but this method would seem like hard work to remember. Have you actually had such a proven case? I expect that it would be easy to spot if someone were actually doing so.
(3) This is some merit in such placing of the Stop Card though it may be considered as stretching Blue Book 3ZB1. I have had RHO place the Stop Card in such a way, and I was more visibly reminded of the requirement to look as if I am thinking for 10 seconds. I don't see such placing as "intimidating".
Barrie Partridge - CTD for Bridge Club Live
This There. Sorry for typo.
Barrie Partridge - CTD for Bridge Club Live
(1) @Senior - The stop card is nothing more than an attention-getting device for all players who do not give their full attention to the bidding. Hence, in my opinion, it is 100% unnecessary, especially in open competition, I will grant you in a teaching session it can be overlooked.
(2) @Senior - yes, documented cases do exist.
(2a) Not so much with the Stop card but I have had cheating happen personally to me by one specific pair. Once I confronted them they admitted to me I no longer played in any game they were present. Long story but I did not have enough proof to be banned from any club (my word against theirs). But I put the word out as far as I could.
The stop card is a device to help players from providing UI when they have difficulty regulating their own tempo.
Perhaps you would provide us with the documentation?
I certainly know of one bridge teacher who tells her pupils that the stop card makes sure your partner realises that you have jumped and was most upset when I ran a RealBridge session with screens so that players could not see partner's stop card