Pair unable to play the whole competition

JeremyChild · February 2023

I have a Swiss event coming up which has 10 rounds - 3 on Friday and 7 on Saturday.

I have one pair who can now only play the Saturday, and want to know if they can do this.

I could find a "substitute" pair to play the Friday, but my instinct is to say "no". To my mind, substitutes are for unexpected absences, not planned ones. I could do it without a substitute pair, with them only playing on the Saturday, but how would I determine what score they would start the Saturday on? (And how would other competitors view this?)

Comments / Suggestions?

Jeremy

Robin_BarkerTD · February 2023

EBU allows players to withdraw at the end of a session and join Swiss events after a session - we are keen to take their entry.

You would need a standby pair, so either play the first session or play the second day.

As ever. you should set the event up with too many tables to allow for changes to pairs during the event.

JeremyChild · February 2023

@Robin_BarkerTD said:

EBU allows players to withdraw at the end of a session and join Swiss events after a session - we are keen to take their entry.

You would need a standby pair, so either play the first session or play the second day.

So if we have an even number of pairs for the first day, what VP score do the second-day-only pair start on?

gordonrainsford · February 2023

@JeremyChild said:
@Robin_BarkerTD said:

EBU allows players to withdraw at the end of a session and join Swiss events after a session - we are keen to take their entry.

You would need a standby pair, so either play the first session or play the second day.

So if we have an even number of pairs for the first day, what VP score do the second-day-only pair start on?

The score achieved by the substitute pair.

Robin_BarkerTD · February 2023

If you have completely new extra pairs (not replacing a substitute pair), they should get the White Book score for being at fault for unplayed rounds (White Book 3.3.9: VP score for 45% for even-length matches. VP score for 44.3% (440+350)/3 for 7-board matches).

If the pair is likely to do well, they should he assigned on the basis of a provisional score of 10VP for missing rounds (for the first few assignments),

JeremyChild · February 2023

Or > @gordonrainsford said:

So if we have an even number of pairs for the first day, what VP score do the second-day-only pair start on?

The score achieved by the substitute pair.

So if I have an even number of pairs for day one, I have to find a subsitute pair and an extra pair to balance the numbers?

Or do I expect the Saturday pair to find their own subsittutes?

Robin_BarkerTD · February 2023

It is good practice for organisers to find a standby pair for congress swiss pairs events. Ideally local and available for all sessions, even if they only turn up for later sessions if contacted. We (EBU) pay something towards travel/parking if they don't play.

JeremyChild · February 2023

@Robin_BarkerTD said:
It is good practice for organisers to find a standby pair for congress swiss pairs events. Ideally local and available for all sessions, even if they only turn up for later sessions if contacted. We (EBU) pay something towards travel/parking if they don't play.

We're doing this, but finding 2 standby pairs could be tricky.

JeremyChild · February 2023

@Robin_BarkerTD said:
If you have completely new extra pairs (not replacing a substitute pair), they should get the White Book score for being at fault for unplayed rounds (White Book 3.3.9: VP score for 45% for even-length matches. VP score for 44.3% (440+350)/3 for 7-board matches).

If the pair is likely to do well, they should he assigned on the basis of a provisional score of 10VP for missing rounds (for the first few assignments),

Thank's Robin - that's really helpful.

Do you know if EBUScore Swiss Pairs can cope with assigning differently to their actual score?

CMOT_Dibbler · February 2023

From JSS
JSS Scoring Software Reference Manual
Issue 5 11-Aug-18 Jul Page 40 of 55
13. PROPERTIES
13.1 Properties
This allows adjustments eg procedural or disciplinary penalties, Carry Forward scores etc. that cannot be
handled in any other way by JSS. Adjustments are assumed to be in the main unit of scoring (eg VPs in
Teams etc).
Individual, Pairs& Teams One adjustment per player per section per session
SwissPairs/Teams One adjustment per player

Seems like you can transfer in the previous scores by XML file and then adjust for those extra people. Could be wrong though.

gordonrainsford · February 2023

You can also manually change assigments before you upload them.

Paul_Gibbons · February 2023

I think Robin was suggesting that to start with you give them a 'carried forward' adjustment of 30 VPs when assining say their first 3 rounds on Saturday and then reduce it to their actual 'carry forward'. Of course you would need to explain this to the team beforehand.

JeremyChild · February 2023

@Paul_Gibbons said:
I think Robin was suggesting that to start with you give them a 'carried forward' adjustment of 30 VPs when assining say their first 3 rounds on Saturday and then reduce it to their actual 'carry forward'. Of course you would need to explain this to the team beforehand.

Thanks Paul.

I'd thought about that as a solution - we would of course have to explain it to everyone, not just the pair in question.

JeremyChild · February 2023

@gordonrainsford said:
You can also manually change assigments before you upload them.

We can - but that introduces complication and a risk of error (creating a rematch). Maybe EBUScore can help by pointing out any rematches? I'll investgate.

gordonrainsford · February 2023

@JeremyChild said:

@gordonrainsford said:
You can also manually change assigments before you upload them.

We can - but that introduces complication and a risk of error (creating a rematch). Maybe EBUScore can help by pointing out any rematches? I'll investgate.

I'm fairly sure it does.

JeremyChild · February 2023

@Robin_BarkerTD said:

If the pair is likely to do well, they should he assigned on the basis of a provisional score of 10VP for missing rounds (for the first few assignments),

Does this exist in the rules/regulations (white book?) anywhere, or is it just custom and practice?

I want to be ready with an answer when someone asks "why?"

Robin_BarkerTD · February 2023

@JeremyChild said:

@Robin_BarkerTD said:

If the pair is likely to do well, they should he assigned on the basis of a provisional score of 10VP for missing rounds (for the first few assignments),

Does this exist in the rules/regulations (white book?) anywhere, or is it just custom and practice?

I want to be ready with an answer when someone asks "why?"

The reason for assigning wtih 30VP rather than 21 or 24 is so that pairs on "45%" after 3 matches don't have to play a "55%" pair. This isn't written down - it is necessary for the smooth running of the event. These arrangements are part of the acceptance of the entry of the pair who can't play the first session, and can be regarded as part of the conditions of contest.

The reversion to "AVE-" for 3 matches after session 2 (or at another time) is the White Book regulations for unplayed matches.

Edit: removed unintended double negative.

JeremyChild · February 2023

@Robin_BarkerTD said:

@JeremyChild said:

@Robin_BarkerTD said:

If the pair is likely to do well, they should he assigned on the basis of a provisional score of 10VP for missing rounds (for the first few assignments),

Does this exist in the rules/regulations (white book?) anywhere, or is it just custom and practice?

I want to be ready with an answer when someone asks "why?"

The reason for assigning wtih 30VP rather than 21 or 24 is to avoid pairs on "45%" after 3 matches don't have to play a "55%" pair. This isn't written down - it is necessary for the smooth running of the event. These arrangements are part of the acceptance of the entry of the pair who can't play the first session, and can be regarded as part of the conditions of contest.

The reversion to "AVE-" for 3 matches after session 2 (or at another time) is the White Book regulations for unplayed matches.

Thanks, Robin.