Howells and Arrow Switching seating

SteveMap · April 2023

I’m interested to know, in Howell type movements, is there a protocol for the pairs playing N/S then E/W.
I know in some scoring software you have an individual assessment of your Declarer play or your defence. (So the direction is important, if it is to be correct)
As an example, in the initial setup, where I am entered as North and my partner is South; When we move, in a Howell movement, should I (North) move to the East or West seat.
Equally, in a Switched Mitchell, should the board be rotated 90deg Clockwise or Anti-clockwise.
Kind regards Steve

Robin_BarkerTD · April 2023

There is an answer to "Ask Robin" in a recent English Bridge, and this from the White Book

8.5.3 Arrow-switched rounds and Howell-type movements in pairs event
In a pairs movement, where one pairs remains at each table throughout the session, when there is an ‘arrow-switch’ round, the TD instructs that the players to occupy their usual seats but to rotate the boards, so that East plays the North cards.
In other movements, where some moving pairs play other moving pairs (‘Howell-type’ movements), when pairs change direction, players should swap between the North and East seats or between the South and West seats.
In both cases, these provisions match the expectations of software as to where players will play.

SteveMap · April 2023

That’s great. Thank you Robin 👌

16248 · April 2023

I always leave this up to individual pairs.
I can't see any reason why the Director should need to designate the positions. The laws say nothing about this.

Robin_BarkerTD · April 2023

Bridgewebs and Pianola give statistics for each players play. If it is a one-winner pairs movement, the systems have to know where "North" sits when the pair plays EW. Both systems make the same assumptions - Bridgewebs displays this assumption "(Assuming E & N)" - the instructions in the white book match these assumptions. The TD can give these instructions (they are not contrary to the law) in order to allow the players to get more values from the online results systems.

gordonrainsford · April 2023

If the TD gives no instructions, how can any disagreement be resolved?

16248 · April 2023

I suppose you could have a disagreement with an arrow switch if both pairs want to be specific. I would allow the moving pair to change places.
Personaly, I'm not too bothered by what Pianola thinks. When I Direct I often switch between East and West so that I'm more accessible to other tables.

gordonrainsford · April 2023

" I would allow the moving pair to change places." On what would you base that? What if the sitting pair also want to play the other way?

16248 · April 2023

I don't normally use arrow switches. But in the hundreds of times I have played them I have never known a Director specify which way North and South play. It doesn't matter.
I have sometimes seen the moving pair swap seats for an arrow switch.

SteveMap · April 2023

Thank you All, it’s good to know at least there is an established switching pattern. I think it’s reasonable to consider in Mitchell’s; by rotating the board 90deg clockwise on switched rounds (if I’ve understood this correctly). As far as Howell type movements, mostly pairs tend to have their own NSEW preference (in charge of the BridgeMate or Not), which I wouldn’t object to. I personally tend to prefer not sitting next to a radiator when playing E/W, but my wife likes to.
Thank you also for the White Book references and BridgeWebs/Pianola assumptions.
Kind regards Steve

SteveMap · November 5

I’m reopening this thread as I’ve been asked by a member for some further explanation.
As per The White Book 8.5.3 (above) When playing Howell movements, the protocol is East and North players interchange seats.
However, when playing in a switched Mitchell, when there is an arrow switch (recommended by rotating the boards 90deg clockwise) East now becomes North (ok), but the original North now becomes West. This appears contrary to the Howell movement.
I can understand it’s simpler to just rotate the board in a Mitchell.
Surely it would be more consistent in the Howell movements, if North and West exchanged places. Then it would tally nicely with the switched Mitchell.
Can someone please explain the rational for this.
Kind regards Steve

Mitch · November 5

If North & West exchange places, you still have the same problem, just with a different player: You have resolved the problem for North (& South) but created the problem for West (& East). West now moves to North in a Howell, whereas would have moved to South in a Switched Mitchell.

SteveMap · November 5

Oops, you’re quite right Mitch, I didn’t think it through properly. The problem cant be simply resolved by just rotating the board Clock or AntiClock.
I guess it was easier when bridge tables had a rectangular recess which the board fitted into. The East player adopting the North seat and the North player moving to the East seat.
So now the software caters for the original North player adopting the West cards in the switched Howell rounds.
Thanks again. 👍

Robin_BarkerTD · November 5

There may be sensible solutions but what we have is an approach based on previous custom-and-practice (that pair/board placement in Howells v A/S Mitchells works differently) which is now hard-coded in to software products which attempt to guess which seat a moving player is playing in.

The club or a director can issue different instructions for pair/board placement but it won't match the expectations of the software.

Howells and Arrow Switching seating

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