Permitted bid
Last night I was called to a table where the bidding had gone 2S (3H) 2NT. In this particular case I'd forgotten what the ruling should be after an insufficient bid. I checked with another experienced director and he couldn't remember either. Can anyone help?
The 2NT bid would have been an asking bid and was not accepted. What would the 2NT bidder have been allowed to bid, apart from pass, in order to make his corrected bid a substantially similar bid?
Comments
Quite likely there's not a comparable call here, I'm struggling to think of a bid that would mean the same as 2NT.
If they had some unusual agreement that double was also an asking bid maybe. They don't have to make a comparable call of course, probably here they'd prefer to bid the most likely game.
I wondered if 4NT might be considered a comparable bid since that would be asking. Here's the hand.
spades A K Q 10 5
hearts A 6 5
diamonds A Q J 10 2
clubs - -
Most pairs were in 6S making +1. One pair was in 7S making after the simple auction 2S (P) 7S
2NT, is normally any enquiry of strength and/or shape, maybe Ogust convention.
And 4NT is a completely different convention enquiring for Aces.
Therefore it appears to be necessary to make a punt at 6or7 Spades, as this and any other bid would silence partner.
If 2S(3H)4H shows a good raise to 4S then I think that is subset of 2S(P)2NT because the latter would include strong raises of spades, so 4H would be comparable.
I am not sure that 4NT (as a replacement) would be comparable: 2NT is asking for one thing, 4NT is asking for another, so they don't have the same 'purpose' (Law 23A3).
> If 2S(3H)4H shows a good raise to 4S then I think that is subset of 2S(P)2NT because the latter would include strong raises of spades, so 4H would be comparable.
>
I hadn’t thought of that one 👍
Then if partner bids 4S after that, then the bidding can continue, including 4NT etc
Yes.
With the hindsight of the other results and the other auctions. ...
As long as the offender was allowed to bid, and knew that opener was likely to be silenced, offender was in the same position as responders who guessed to bid 6S or 7S. So offender had not done themselves too much damage.
"If 2S(3H)4H shows a good raise to 4S then I think that is subset of 2S(P)2NT because the latter would include strong raises of spades, so 4H would be comparable."
I agree, as long as we confirm that both 2NT uncontested and 4H contested unambiguously agree spades. That is true for most of the world, but not absolutely everyone.
GR: "I agree, as long as we confirm that both 2NT uncontested and 4H contested unambiguously agree spades."
I don't think it's necessary for 2NT uncontested to agree spades for this to be comparable. For most simple souls at least, 2NT is the first move on any strong hand opposite a weak two. If that's so, 4H in competition is just a subset of those strong hands.
I was thinking of it the other way around: if 4H does not necessarily agree spades it is not a comparable call for a 2NT that does.